Product Leaders to Watch: Oscar Health and Intuit/Quickbooks Product Leaders on B2B Tech

Episode Transcript

Neha:

Hello, I am Neha Shah, a product manager and entrepreneur who has built and launched products in the B2B tech space for over 10 years. I am currently the founder of Kutumb Village, a kid wellness focus product company. Today, I bring you a special Product Talk mini series called Product Leaders to Watch. As part of this podcast series, I will be introducing the 13 members of the Awards Advisory Board. The Awards Advisory Board is an independent panel of product leaders who will choose the winners at our next Product Awards. The conversations will be focused on seven different product verticals, from FinTech to the Internet of Things. And we will be hearing, as you guessed, from some of the product leaders in those spaces. And now, I am excited to introduce you to our first guest today. 

So today we are joined by Aditya Subramaniam, Director of Product Management at Oscar Health. Welcome.

Aditya Subramaniam

Aditya:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Neha:

Absolutely. So really excited to kick this off. To get started, tell us a bit more about your background and product. Why do you love working in product?

Aditya:

Yeah, for sure. So I’ve been a product for almost 12 years now, primarily at B2B startups. And over that time, I’ve also had the opportunity or the pleasure so to speak, to work across different industries, started off my career in IT security, then spent a lot of time in ed tech, then Health Tech back in IT. And now once again, back in health tech. So certainly a lot of industries that I spent my time in, like I mentioned, you know, most of it, I guess outside of Oscar has been at startups, both early stage startups.

I like to tell people this that I’ve seen both sides of the startup coin.

So, you know, I’ve seen startups go through a very successful exit in a really nice way. But I’ve also seen startups not do that well. And that breadth of experience has certainly helped shape my product career, being able to deal with different challenges, whether it’s scaling challenges, challenges of downscaling as well, and figuring out creative solutions during the day, whether it’s a complex problem from a customer standpoint, or from an organizational standpoint. And yeah, that’s definitely helped shape my product career over the course of slightly more than a decade.

It sounds like it’s been a lot of adventure. 

Aditya:

Definitely. Yeah, for sure. You know, I tell people this. So you know, a lot of folks asked me, How did I fall into product, for example. And my first job, I still remember out of grad school, joined this startup in Atlanta. Quite literally, we were, our office was a warehouse in Atlanta. They called our group, the group that did everything that was not sales, marketing, and engineering. So we did everything from customer support, to sales engineering, to implementations, to product management, to QA. And that sort of gave me the opportunity to actually learn different parts of the business within the first four months of graduating from school.

Oftentimes, when you graduate, you sort of go into engineering or marketing, etc. But that particular role sort of required me to learn a lot of different skills very quickly. And all of that sort of helped shape my product career. Like I loved talking to customers. And I’m comfortable doing that because I started off by, you know, my first week at that job required me to call up Customers and start talking to them. You know, that was sort of part of our onboarding process. And it was definitely like a, you know, the proverbial drinking from the firehose kind of situation. But it definitely helped to have a lot of fun during that, during that period, for sure.

Neha:

Definitely. And it sounds like, you know, as they would say, from the playbook, the number one thing in the product playbook is know your customer and know your market.

You were right in the thick of things, and in sort of building and understanding who your customer is.

Aditya:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, when I joined, I didn’t know that there was a field called product management, you know, there’s, there’s no real school, if you will, or course that told you what product management was. And I had to learn things by myself, you know, we didn’t necessarily, like I mentioned, have a formal product function. So Google became my best friend, learning, just learning from people talking to customers. And naturally, I just realized that that was something that excited me a lot just being able to talk to customers, understand their pain points, and then help solve it for them.

Neha:

Yeah, I mean, the curiosity part, that’s the other thing we talk about, on Product Talk a lot. It’s, you know, product managers just curious. And they find, they find ways they find ways to solve, you know, even their own problems, like you did.

Aditya:

Totally, yeah.

I also joke with a lot of my friends that I sort of, I’ve gotten into product managing my own life .

You know, whether I’m scheduling things, or whether I’m thinking of solving problems, I’m like, Okay, if I was a PM, how would I MVP this? You know, the shelf that I’m building, for example?

Neha:

Yep, our product matters, this, this trip, your vacation? You’ve got a plan? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, only from experience, I can say that. Gotta love that. Well, so you know, you’re a member of our awards advisory board, and for this product award season, you will be focused on the B2B tech industry. And he already shared with us that you worked in B2B Tech for many, many years, over a decade.

What is particularly exciting to you about working in the B2B space? 

Aditya:

That’s actually a good question. Because I know I’ve been in that space for a very long time. And a lot of people ask me that, say, you know, what sort of excites you about that space. And for me, it’s primarily for two reasons. One is arguably the most important one, in my opinion, is that in the B2B space, your customers, I like to treat customers at least as equal partners in the entire development process. Obviously, helping them solve real business problems.

But at the same time, I deeply enjoy working with customers that are willing to partner with me to help create a good product, not just necessarily for them, but also for other customers of the business that I’m working at. You get to talk to them, understand their pain points, observe them when they are operating day to day, and work with them, essentially, bring them part of your journey, right? When you talk about, you know, when I talk about things like roadmaps or customers, I try to be as transparent as possible. And so tell them, Look, you’re in a business as well, I’m in a business as well, this is a roadmap. These are the uncertainties that we will have over time, and we will adjust and I’ll be transparent with you throughout the process. Similarly, even if there’s something like an egregious bug that a customer identifies, apologize.

Talk to them about how you’re going to make their life better, how you’re going to bring them along in that process of product development, etc.

And that’s something that I really enjoy with B2B. The second one is just with the complexity of B2B. In general, you have so many different regulatory environments, like from a legal standpoint, compliance standpoint, privacy standpoint. And that’s not to say you don’t have that in b2c. But in B2B, you have to deal with different business verticals, all of these regulatory pieces might be different across different businesses, verticals, etc. And being able to think of solutions to problems that meet for your market in a creative way is something that excites me a lot. You often have to learn a lot about the regulatory landscape in order to be able to build a product. So for me, I’ve also had the opportunity to learn.

Neha:

You know, one thing you also mentioned when we were talking earlier is, you know, you talked about how the product that that you’re building when you’re thinking about your customers as partners, I mean, they’re kind of trusting you with it, because I mean, if they wanted to build it themselves, they could have built it yourself.

Like I think you mentioned, your product doesn’t necessarily have to be the secret sauce.

Aditya:

For sure. Yeah, that’s a good point as well. Because if you’re the product that you’re building, it’s likely not going to be the core product for your customer because otherwise they will be building it themselves. So it’s always exciting to build a product that enables our customers to do what they do best and not have them worry about if you’re building a product that helps them with IT security or administrative functions like HR or recruiting, if you build a good product for that, they don’t have to worry about operational processes, that could potentially hamper the day to day functioning.

And that’s part of the excitement and magic of working in B2B, where you can actually go and say, you know, what all of these businesses that are doing so well, are the customers of my product, and are essentially partners. I’ve worked with them in order to build a product that I’m building out.

So yeah, that’s definitely part of the gratification of working in that industry.

Neha:

You get to be part of this larger ecosystem that’s connecting businesses all over the world together.  Yeah. Well, I think that’s a really good segue into the next question, which is something we always ask our guests on the podcast, which is what makes a great product? And you know, you being a member of the awards advisory board, you really get to determine the answer to that question, when you’re, you know, selecting products for the Product Awards. As you know, we received over 3000 nominations last year, and we’re expecting more this year, we know when you’re thinking about qualities are sort of the checkbox for what makes a great B2B product, you know, what goes through your mind?

What makes a great B2B product?

Aditya:

I wouldn’t say there’s a checklist of sorts, it’s more of a broad, and arguably very cliche philosophy of helping your users and customers solve problems in a delightful way. However, in a B2B environment, that notion of user delight does not necessarily have to be the simplicity of the product, or, you know, great UX or great UI. And controversial as this might sound, you know, if you take something like say, Salesforce as an example, right, it takes time to learn Salesforce. You know, there are courses for becoming a Salesforce admin, you have to learn the ins and outs of the product before you can become an expert at it. And a lot of companies hire people to operate that piece of technology.

However, if you think about the broad ecosystem, or broad ecosystem that Salesforce has, from an integration standpoint, from a customer base standpoint, it’s world over. Oftentimes, you cannot, you know, once you have Salesforce a couple of years later, you’re probably wondering to yourself, What would I do if I do not have Salesforce? And to me, that’s also part of user delight, even though that, you know, it might be complex to learn.

If your users come back to you, you know, after a period of time and tell you, I don’t know what I would have done without you. That, to me, is equally important from a user delight standpoint.

I feel like you see that a lot more in B2B, where you’re sort of, you have to hone in on the customer problem a lot more. And you may have to sacrifice UX, depending on the problem you’re solving. But that might be what the customer needs. And they will thank you for it later on.

Like I said, I know this sounds a little controversial. I’m sure there are product designers out there that will come after me for saying this. But that’s something that I actually enjoy working with my design team on all the products that I’ve worked at. That’s been the healthy tension that my design team and I’ve had when we talk about how we make this like a good UX experience. That’s actually part of the added challenge of B2B. And I think the future of B2B is really around thinking through how we can further simplify some of these solutions moving forward? 

Neha:

We were talking about what makes a great product. And I think the biggest thing you were harping on is, you know, how does this support a user or, you know, a business user in a way that it’s sticky, but sticky in a way that actually helps them achieve their outcomes? Right?

What is the most critical thing that a good B2B product accomplishes?

Aditya:

Yeah, it’s always around the return on investment for a customer. So they’re paying you, obviously, some amount of money to purchase a software, they’re probably investing some amount of money on their site to operate that piece of software. But are you still providing them returns that allow them to say, You know what, this investment was worth it? Because otherwise, I will be spending a lot more money on doing something else, whether it’s through, you know, hiring more teams to do something, or operating something in a very clunky manner. So being able to demonstrate that ROI to customers is super important.

Neha:

Great. No, I think that’s really solid and goes back to the point you made earlier about that ecosystem that the B2B industry really, you know, aims to provide to almost every business that’s out there. That’s super cool. Well, thank you. Thank you for joining me today. This was a great conversation and thanks for being on the Advisory Board.

Aditya:

Yep. Well, thanks for having me excited to see the products that come through.

Rosa Welton

Neha:

Now we are joined by Rosa Welton, Director of Product Management at Intuit. She’s been a product leader for over 15 years across a number of verticals. And I’m super excited to have her join us on the podcast today. Welcome, Rosa.

Rosa:

Thank you, Neha. I’m excited to be here with you. 

Neha:

Awesome. Well, let’s just get started. Very easy question. Tell us more about how you got into product.

Rosa:

I discovered product when I was first working at a startup. Frankly, it was, imagine this, videos and movies and TV shows over broadband. Make sense? No. But when I was working in IT, broadband just wasn’t didn’t have enough penetration. And so there I got exposed to these people called product managers. They were figuring out this brand new interface. So I was able to work closely with them as a project manager, supporting research, supporting, you know, working with engineering in the go to market. And I just thought, wow, they are in the middle of that. They’re solving problems. And it seemed like a really good match for what I like to do. I like to experiment. I like to work with different people, and then create things that we learned from, we launch it, we learn it, we see how it does with real people.

How did you get your first break into product?

Rosa:

I started with a startup in LA called TrueCar. And joined as what they call the business analyst, working again, very side by side with the product team. I made clear from the start, I want to be a product manager. And so they you know, they supported it, they made an effort to find, you know, ways to move from me to shadow, own smaller parts, and then just get bigger and bigger responsibilities. And eventually, I was named an official product manager.

Neha:

How exciting. And you know, I love that story. Also, because a lot of folks who are new to tech or, you know, just want to break into product management from having worked in other parts like support or, you know, even engineering sometimes they’re not sure what it takes. And I love that the first story was, you told them, You said, Hey, this is what I want to do.

I think that’s, you know, that’s very admirable of you, but also admirable of the team and the company, that they kind of charted that path for you.

Rosa:

Yes. I know, it’s really challenging for people to break into product these days. My advice for folks is often to find those people who will advocate for you. And most often, that’s going to happen, right where you are, in the company where you’ve got the relationships, you’ve got credibility and a track record, and someone will give you a chance, even if even if it doesn’t happen, that you get the official title, you can get some work on the parts of the product lifecycle under your belt that you can then speak to in an interview. There’s a lot of value there.

Neha:

Yeah, definitely. Well, so that’s the break and making in part, right, so now you’re a product manager, how did you then navigate your career from someone who was new to product to now becoming someone who was taking on more leadership and really taking ownership of your own role as a product manager?

What was that journey like for you?

Rosa:

I’d say it’s two things. And one is that in retrospect, it looks like a story that I can link together. But in the moment, I was looking at what looks fun, what looks interesting. I have found that if I am into an area or topic, I just really devote myself to it. That brings its own success. So that’s been one thing is to do things I like, and the other one has been more challenging. It’s taken other people to say to me, Hey, it looks like you’re good at this looks like you’re good at that. And honestly, it took me a bunch of times to hear that I’m really good at working cross functionally, I’m really good at building a team, for me to say then embrace it and claim it as my own. And that’s really helped me focus on roles that are lined up with my strength, right. 

Neha:

Yep, playing to your strengths. So one more question on that. So from all your years of experience, and all the different companies,

What is the one thing I guess in recent times that you’ve been most proud of that you’ve accomplished as a product leader?

Rosa:

I say, you know, it goes back to one of my later roles at eBay, where it felt like a well oiled machine of all of us across functions, design, research, analytics, Product Engineering, working toward one goal and putting more money in the seller’s pocket. And that still stands out for me because it was such an animating force for us. When we were making decisions, when we were making trade offs. Is this going to help the seller? I saw the power of that as we went out and talked to Other teams where we needed help. And then also just in terms of how we measured, you know, our dashboards, et cetera, all geared toward those success metrics, so that for me, it stands out as a proud moment of team building, you know, having a focus and a good vision to march toward and then delivering results.

Neha:

Absolutely. Because it’s all about the execution, right? Like, it’s not just about the great ideas, but also bringing the teams together so that you can have a successful launch. So for this product award season, you will be focused on our B2B tech industry vertical.

What excites you about being on the B2B tech side?

Rosa:

You know, B2B is a newer area for me, I transitioned from eBay and went to ServiceNow. And the challenge at ServiceNow was, one, to have a more consumerized experience, and two, solve the problem of post sales. So the problem was, customers would find that it took a while to get to value once they were on the platform. And so what was interesting for me is how to think about the mini personas of a B2B customer, you’ve got a buyer, potentially, they’re kind of a c minus one, c minus two person, there’s the middle layer of the platform owner who’s on the hook for the success of this, and then a small team of implementers, and decision makers on the day to day.

And so I loved coming in and taking a view of how might B2C experience could come to bear on defining their needs, the outcomes that these folks needed to meet. So I’m excited at this trend, I see not just the service now, but across B2B on how to make these experiences just really elegant, really meet what customers need.

And that’s what I was drawn to when we were talking about this event.

Neha:

Absolutely. I mean, it’s B2B, but it’s also human to human at the end of the day, and every person you’re interacting with on your customer side has certain incentives, has certain goals, and your product is enabling them towards that.

Rosa:

Exactly. And the goals are quite different. Sometimes, if you think about the on the ground user, they want to get their job done. It needs to not be an obstacle.

But then someone who’s maybe got more responsibility for budgets, they need to show the value that’s derived from using this service.

And so that’s where it’s from a product point of view, very interesting to think about how you design it, how you measure value, what kind of messages you enable the end user, the customer, the buyer to tell?

Neha:

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Well, this kind of goes into a question that we always ask on the podcast, which is, you know, what makes a great product? Being a member of our awards advisory board, you know, you really get to determine the answer to that question, as you’re evaluating the entries we received. I think last year, we received over 3000 nominations for the Product Awards. And, you know, I think it’s a good thing to probably expect more this year, as there’s more innovation and more companies out there. So, you know, as you’re putting on your Award Advisory Board Member hat on, what are you looking for?

What is your criteria for a great, not just good, B2B product?

Rosa:

I think it really goes back to the customer, and what real people need in their lives, in their work, and what they’re coming to the product to achieve. And, you know, often there’s a whole range of great in that is, one is even identifying a need that people didn’t know they had. Thinking about even how we manage data, and how we show data, so much innovation there. And that’s interesting to me. The other part too, is how, to my point earlier, how you close the loop on value. Especially in this segment, the buyer and the user are very different people. And so that, I think it has to be part of how the product manager thinks about it. And you know, how we can access it in the experience itself?

Neha:

Yeah, there’s that intangible part of the surprise and delight you can bring to the customer.

But then there’s the very tangible value, the ROI part almost, that’s also important to be able to balance well in a B2B product.

Rosa:

That’s right. And then if you think about it, you know, you and I, as people, people in companies, there are dozens and dozens of solutions that we have access to. And so we also have, we have some choice, often on what we use, and so the products that draw me back are those that just let me do the thing I need to do, and then get on with more valuable work.

Neha:

Absolutely. Let me get my job done. That’s why we have a whole jobs to be done aspect of product management, as we always talk about. Well, this was super informative and helpful. Thank you so much, Rosa, for being on the Board and excited to see what comes our way for the Product Awards.

Rosa:

So am I. Thank you so much, Neha, for having me.